Recipe - Rye Saison with Pseudo Turbid Mash

This is my typical Saison Grain bill but played around with the process and added dry hops.

Batch Size 20 L
Target OG 1.051
Actual OG 1.057
FG 1.008
Est IBU 27
Est ABV 6.4


4.5 kg (78%) Belgian Pilsner
600g (10%) Flaked wheat
600g (10%) Rye Malt
50g (1%) Special B (anything to hit SRM of 5)

19g Premiant Hops @ 60min
19g Premiant Hops @ 10
28g Premiant Hops @ 0
21g Ella Dry hop 5 days later for 5 days at 20 C

1 package of Escarpment JÖTUNN
(for the version still fermenting I also added) 1 package of Escarpment Brett B

Montreal water
1 g of Gypsum

So I think I had fun with a turbid mash on a Lambic style recipe and tried to see if I could do something for Saisons with different goals in mind. In Lambic Styles, unfermentables (unconverted starches) are a large part of the wort. The question I had, could I get some of the wort to skip various mash steps and obtain a complex wort with some beta glucans from the Rye to stick around and some longer chain sugars.

Link to proper Turbid Mash Technique here:

Pseudo Turbid Mash (not a turbid mash used for Lambic styles)
-Boil 2L of water in Vessel A; Vessel A will try to maintain light Boil
-Dough-in @ 40-45°C with thick mash in Vessel B; approx 10L of water
-After 5 mins take 4L from Vessel B to Vessel A
-After 25 mins raise temperature of Vessel B to 55°C by taking 2 L from Vessel A and heating. At the same time take 2L from Vessel B and transfer to Vessel A.
-After 15 mins, raise temperature of Vessel B to 65°C by taking 2 L from Vessel A and heating. At the same time take 2L from Vessel B and transfer to Vessel A.
-After 10 mins, allow both vessels to cool.
-After 20 mins, add all contents of Vessel A to B, to target 70°C.
-After 20 mins, mash out.

60 min Boil, with hop schedule above.

Chill to 27°C.
Added a “clarity ferm” vial I bought a long time ago and never used.

5 days at 27°C… Dry hopped and cooled to 20°C. On day 10 transfered to Carboys (Sg 1.010) and let it ferment out for 3 weeks (Sg 1.008). Bottled 4L with CBC-1 (see if the wine-killer affects JÖTUNN). Bottle conditioned to hit 3 vol CO2. Added Escarpment Brett B to 16L still fermenting away.

I am looking for feedback on the recipe as a whole.
What do you think of this Pseudo Turbid Mash? I can imagine a Beta Glucan rest and heating it up to above the glucan rest and adding more Rye would give me a final beer with similar beta glucans in the final beer as this Pseudo Turbid Mash.

Final result, my tasting
Appearance: Fluffy white head sticks around and laces the glass. Yellow straw colour.
Aroma: slightly citrus and candy. Low for my liking. Hops sticks out a little.
Taste: A little too bitter for a saison, I probably over compensated with my adjustment of Alpha acid in the old Premiant. Spicy which worked really well with the Ella Dry hops. Fruitiness was hard for me to describe. Others tasted got bubblegum, banana, pear and citrus. Escarpment says fruit salad. I didn’t get the citrus like French Saison or Old World Saison. I only had 1/2 bottle for myself.
Mouthfeel: creamy, dry finish, spiky (in a refreshing way).
Overall: I am happy with it. I recommend Old World Saison for the yeast if you are not adding brett. I am hoping the Brett B works well with this (I will report when I taste it). I like the dry hops. I usually age my saisons a long time so the bitterness will likely get to a good place in 6 months.


You did the extra miles and it pays off! Never heard of that type of mash, very interesting.

Congrats !